Curse

VGJustice · Nov 29, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Ok, before the flames begin about a Ranger with a sword, let me assure you that A) I'm not high (and I have been accused of this in game), and B) I'm not using any status ailments. Ok, now that that's out of the way, here's my still experimental 3 Att melee ranger with a sword:

Attributes:
Swordsmanship: 12
Tactics: 10
Expertice: 5 + 1 + 3

Skills:
Whirling Defense
Disiplined Stance
Dodge
Final Thrust
Thrill of Victory
Hundred Blades {E}
Savage Slash
Res Sig

Standard weaknesses for a melee type characters apply, you should fear blindness and Shield of Judgement, which is a give, and the Ranger is in no way as tough as a Warrior, so you don't want to get a bunch of guys wailing on you, and a R/W is (or should be) a prime target for Wild Blow. On the other hand, while I was using this build in CA and in TA I noticed something pretty odd: I was getting ignored as I charged in. Which was incredibly funny as I plinked with Hundred Blades then slapped them hard with Thrill of Victory. Usually after that, I had their attention. The build is capable of some happily suprising damage, even to the ultra tough Warriors with Sup Abs and Knights (I could spike at about 60-80 damage on the classic Wa/Mo's I encountered). Once I get their health down below half is when this build really shines, because the combined attacks of Thrill and Final is devistating.

Ok.... anyone see any points that could be improved upon?

DeanBB · Nov 29, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Why not use Apply Poison in place of one of the stances? Hundred Blades potentially allows you to spread it around to multiple opponents.

How 'bout Lightning Reflexes instead of Disciplined for the faster attacks?

[edit] Oh and attributes would be 12-10-8, so expertise should be 12 with mask + rune.

carnivore · Nov 29, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

just a question? why?

1)your build is not that energy intensive

2)you dont take advantage of any key ranger skills used in melee builds

3)you might as well be a warrior

if you want to make some better use of energy you should put in apply poison(0 wilderness is fine) and tigers fury(4 points in BM)

ermm try takin 1 point out of tactics and placin it in expertise and BM

Hot Dead · Nov 29, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Better hope you have a good monk, you have no healing skill, the only skill that will heal you a lot is heal sig.
switch it with one one of the stances

VGJustice · Nov 29, 2005, 08:06 PM // 20:06

I originally use Apply Poison with my Melee ranger, and I found out that it's just a seriously bad idea for TA. One halfway decent Boon Prot and you're just giving them ammo.

Lightning Reflexes may be an option, however. I'll have to try that. Disciplined end if you use Final at the wrong time, but that +24 armor and the 75% block are dang handy once the other team realizes what you're about.

As for the Attributes, I know it seems a little funky, but I wanted a higher Swords and Tactics to maximize my damge. A total of 9 Expertise is just dandy for this build, as many of the skills are only 5 base cost, which gets reduced to 3. That, and my Zealous sword picks up for whatever energy needs I may have.

Healing Signet is a very bad idea for this build. That -40 armor may not do anything important to a Warrior, but to a 70AL Ranger.... badbadbad..... That, and I'm developing it for TA, where I'll have a good reliable monk.

I'll consider Tiger's Fury, but it really really loses a lot at only 4 BM.

pagansaint · Nov 29, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

I would say try and fit in Pure Strike and either Seeking Blade or Wildblow for Dodge and Disciplined Stance, You will either be one of the last targeted or you will be taking degen/armor ignoring/spell damage not melee/ranged attacks.

Yes poison is easily remedied, but it is also a drain on their energy if you are only using Poison as your condition, it is just being removed, the only healing they are getting is from boon and favor, and they will have to spam Mend Ailment out every chance they can to keep the poison off.

Which means they use 7 energy every 2 seconds (5 from Mend, 2 from Boon). If that is your only condition it ISN'T giving them ammo, it is just allowing a poor energy manager to run out of energy. Or the poison stays on and you do some decent DPS.

Also the -40 armor from Heal Sig isn't that bad on a ranger considering you have the BEST elemental defense in the game short of buff stacking. Alot of the damage you will take, especially as a melee char is elemental, so you actually edge ahead of a warrior when using it with your AL vs elemental.

BBoy_Manchild · Nov 29, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

that build is seriously lacking in damage, too many stances and rangers dont get str, if this is pvp, any war with wild blow will destroy you, and with no removers just about everything else will destroy you too

VGJustice · Nov 30, 2005, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagansaint

I would say try and fit in Pure Strike and either Seeking Blade or Wildblow for Dodge and Disciplined Stance, You will either be one of the last targeted or you will be taking degen/armor ignoring/spell damage not melee/ranged attacks.

Oddly, this is not my experience. Whenever I'm using a melee ranger in PvP, I'm usually one of the first targets of Warriors. Good players not withstanding (as they choose wiser targets) it seems to me that many warriors seem to think that Rangers are extremely soft targets, and that makes them easy kills. Yes, yes, silly wammos. Pure Strike would be an idea, but it doesn't do anything if you're using a stance, so that would either be tricky to use or would be counter productive in my experience. On the other hand, Wild Blow would be a good idea. Seeking Blade is nice, but rather conditional. Too much so for my taste is all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagansaint

Yes poison is easily remedied, but it is also a drain on their energy if you are only using Poison as your condition, it is just being removed, the only healing they are getting is from boon and favor, and they will have to spam Mend Ailment out every chance they can to keep the poison off.

Which means they use 7 energy every 2 seconds (5 from Mend, 2 from Boon). If that is your only condition it ISN'T giving them ammo, it is just allowing a poor energy manager to run out of energy. Or the poison stays on and you do some decent DPS.

In my experience, it's a poor strategy to plan for bad opponents. But, I guess I should take my own advice on that for your fist paragraph, huh? A good Boon Prot, which is rather common in TA, won't heal poison right away, but will wait until either another condition is placed on the target or will use something like RoF to heal the damage instead of countering the poison, which is only 3 pips degen. I'm no slouch at putting up poison on a whole team, but I've found that there are better ways to do things. Unless your team is set up for that, in which case Apply Poison is a very good thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagansaint

Also the -40 armor from Heal Sig isn't that bad on a ranger considering you have the BEST elemental defense in the game short of buff stacking. Alot of the damage you will take, especially as a melee char is elemental, so you actually edge ahead of a warrior when using it with your AL vs elemental.

Mostly true, but Warriors have another edge over the Ranger in Damage Resistance. Any warrior (even bad players) will take at least one peice of Knight's armor, and some will have Sup Abs, which gives them an unconditional -5 damage taken. Doesn't do much against Spike IMO, but then they also have higher base armor. True, if I'm being pelted with Fire Storm or the like, I'm gonna be doing ok, but usually it's Meteor Storm or armor penetrating Lightning attacks that I'm going to have to deal with. But, like I said before, I'm more used to being pummeled by phisical attackers for some reason. That, and I have the best defence of all against AoE spells: the letters Q, W, and E. Besides, I do know some good healers, so I almost never have to worry about self heals, allowing me to concentrate on attacking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild

that build is seriously lacking in damage, too many stances and rangers dont get str, if this is pvp, any war with wild blow will destroy you, and with no removers just about everything else will destroy you too

I'd like to say that you're probably wrong, but I don't know what a "remover" is, so I'm gonna go check out guildwikki first.(EDIT: Just checked guildwikki, and found no listing. Hmmm.) Also, Strength only gives armor penetration, which is only really usefull against targets with higher AL IMO. Also, in what way am I lacking damage? Like I said, I can top out at around 60-80 damage in a single hit, which is nothing to sneeze at.

JR · Nov 30, 2005, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Dead

Better hope you have a good monk, you have no healing skill, the only skill that will heal you a lot is heal sig.
switch it with one one of the stances

Way to give him the worst advice ever.

BBoy_Manchild · Nov 30, 2005, 08:45 AM // 08:45

removers = condition and hex removers
and armor penetrations makes you do that much more damage to softies too
in pvp melee fighters need to do as much damage as possible while keeping themselves from being shut down

pagansaint · Nov 30, 2005, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Or instead of using strength spamming out energy based attack skills can net you a GREAT damage boost.

Even without points in Strength using Power Attack in your energy attacks chain adds 10 damage, so something like: Power Attack, Pure Strike, Seeking Blade chained as fast as they recharge, even faster if you use Serpent's Quickness, can add up to ALOT of damage quickly.

Thats 10+16+24 at 12 Sword on TOP of whatever you are hitting for normally. Not too bad. 50 extra damage rather quickly, That can be continously chained out, not great spike damage unless you just chain them out then add Final Thrust in at the end when they dip below 50%

Adding Hundred Blades in adds even better DPS, basically you get 50 extra damage with 5 attacks in 5.32 seconds. That can be near continous with a Zealous Hilt and Serpent's Quickness up. And a Warrior primary using an IAS and normal attacks because they cannot spam the energy attacks only gets 5 normal attacks, albiet for slightly higher damage, in less than half a second quicker than you get your 5 and bonus damage.

None too shabby.

EDIT: would look something like...

Hundred Blades{E}
Pure Strike
Seeking Blade
Power Attack
Serpent's Quickness
Whirling Defense
Dryder's Defense/Troll Unguent/Antidote Signet
Res Signet

jesh · Nov 30, 2005, 08:35 PM // 20:35

That's the idea with R/W builds most of the time.. make up for the lack of Strength by spamming energy skills. I just went on my R/W, and you can have 8+3+1 for your expertise. There's no reason not to. You don't have to lower anything else.

BBoy_Manchild · Nov 30, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

enjoy the conditions and hexes people will be throwing on you, im sure the other team will appreciate you being useless the whole fight

pagansaint · Dec 01, 2005, 02:28 AM // 02:28

BBoy, from your posts here and just about any other post I've seen you make, I can tell you don't have a full grasp of what a "team" is. It is not one person.

Do you take evasion/support stances self healing, hex and condition removal all on your warriors? If so you aren't even a target for the opposing team, the most damage you do is to your own team.

LightningHell · Dec 01, 2005, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Why would a Warrior get targeted first?

Anyone with half a brain wouldn't do that. Of course, if you play weird counter-warrior strategies, I can't really say anything, but if you trying really hard to counter Warriors as a whole, you are doomed. Just my opinion.

Sum Gai · Dec 01, 2005, 03:24 AM // 03:24

I think this build wasn't meant for high level GvG or HoH, I think it was meant for CA/TA where W/Mo self mendingers attack whoever the see first, be it Warrior or Monk.

VGJustice · Dec 01, 2005, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sum Gai

I think this build wasn't meant for high level GvG or HoH, I think it was meant for CA/TA where W/Mo self mendingers attack whoever the see first, be it Warrior or Monk.

This is correct. But, I really appreciate the help. I really want this melee R/W to work. It's how I started playing, so I've got a real soft spot for it

Warskull · Dec 01, 2005, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Drop the stances, if you have a real issue with warriors in CA take hamstring and then outrun them.

Most weapon skills are 5 energy. Go with either 8 or 13 expertise (breakpoints for 3 and 2 energy respectively.)

Hundred blades is a poor elite choice. It mainly builds adrenaline and you only have a single adrenaline skill (plus adrenaline skills are against the whole concept of an expertise warrior.)

Dodge ends as soon as you attack, it is a bad running skill.

As a ranger/warrior using a sword the following skills work well with your concept.

Pure Strike
Seeking Blade
Savage Slash
Hamstring
Thrill of Victory
Distracting Blow
Wild Blow

A R/W should attempt to push the energy based warrior attacks to their utmost limit. Although most often you simply cannot match the damage output of a good warrior.

BBoy_Manchild · Dec 01, 2005, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagansaint

BBoy, from your posts here and just about any other post I've seen you make, I can tell you don't have a full grasp of what a "team" is. It is not one person.

Do you take evasion/support stances self healing, hex and condition removal all on your warriors? If so you aren't even a target for the opposing team, the most damage you do is to your own team.

anyone who brings a melee r/w into a 8 v 8 fight is just stupid, so im assuming this is for 4 on 4 arena, where you need to be able to keep yourself from being useless. depending on a monk to remove conditions is just gonna make that monk less effective at healing if they have to be worried about you being shutdown constantly. and no, i never bring evasion stances or self healing into arena, thats newb, people in TA bring wild blow all the time
the warrior i run in CA is a hammer war W/N with plague touch, and the only stance i bring is berserker stance to get my knockdown chain as soon as i possibly can to take out the monk or mesmer before they can be annoying
and you jumping to conclusions assuming i bring evasion stances and self healing when i never said i did just shows how stupid you are pagansaint, keep your comments to yourself

judge1121 · Dec 01, 2005, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

This is correct. But, I really appreciate the help. I really want this melee R/W to work. It's how I started playing, so I've got a real soft spot for it

im guessing u used this in beta since most things worked back then.
first of all if u bringing that into TA or CA plz take out dodge. is not sportman like to run away from, and if not run away keep it but dont run when ur party is dead.
and if u want ur build to work take out all tactics and put it in expertise and wilderness. expertise will cut down energy on skills so energy will be managed and u use tactics for wat disciplined and a shield. dryders is a better shield

.
just u shouldnt try to go into 2 fields of another porffesion else go and become wa/ra with same attribute except for expertise u use beast mastery.
Oh and Tigers Fury will help.
ppl who go swd use the advantage of it wich is bleeding wich i see u dont have. else take a hammer and u can probably run same build just replace 3 skills with hammer skills. the stances will just annoy warriors to tell u the truth.